“I'm not going to tell you that we are going to run the company forever at this level of leverage. But reality is, absent M&A I think this is most likely a little bit of a new norm.”

In context

“So like how do you think about, as we get through the year, this concept, okay, there could be some upside, but you're also quite committed to the spending back. Like where does that kind of tension play out, right? Volumes get weaker, you're going to spend back more. If not, there's some upside, just maybe any context on that as well. So thanks for that on the leverage and just upside versus investment. Thanks so much. Luca Zaramella: Yes. No, I think the first thing first is the underlying strength of the EBITDA in the business. So we are converting cash quite well from net income that is coming. And that is the first element of the equation. The second one is the fact that we are going to get $1.3 plus billion of proceeds from the gum sale, and that will further enhance the situation. I'm not going to tell you that we are going to run the company forever at this level of leverage. But reality is, absent M&A I think this is most likely a little bit of a new norm. What you have also to keep in mind is both in the case of Clif and Ricolino, we are doing quite a good job in terms of integration. And I think deployment of capital behind M&A, particularly, has been something that the company has done well. Capital allocation behind fleet, we quoted a few numbers. I think this is a great opportunity, and it shows that we can generate quite a bit of value through M&A. We don't control necessarily time of M&A. But on the M&A, if something comes along, we're going to be on it. Also, bear in mind that there are parts of the portfolio that we might decide eventually to divest down the road. So I think from a leverage standpoint, we are really in a good shape. The EPS upside, the -- one of the things I believe that is delivering volume growth for us, it is th”