“I'd say for fourth quarter, we'd expect spreads all else equal to grow by 5-plus bps.”

In context

“year-over-year, up 8 basis points on an ex-VII basis and then down sequentially. Year-over-year, it's -- obviously, the higher interest rates have been beneficial. We have more of these interest rate caps that are in the money that are starting to kind of add to the spread. Sequentially, it was down 2 basis points. In the second quarter, I called out that there were some excess returns in real estate that we expected to moderate they did. So, I'd say third quarter came in pretty much as expected. And then I think the thing going forward here is certainly based on the forward curve which I just pulled up this morning of 3-month LIBOR which is expected to rise to above 5% in the end of the year and beyond into next year. These caps will still be in place and will be additive to the spread. I'd say for fourth quarter, we'd expect spreads all else equal to grow by 5-plus bps. Operator: Next, we go to the line of Wilma Burtis with Raymond James. Wilma Burdis: [Indiscernible] previously guided to $650 million, $750 million of corporate costs for 2022. It sounds like you're sticking to the 12.3% expense guidance but should we expect a higher run rate in corporate heading into 2023, given PFO growth and inflation? John McCallion: Wilma, this is John. Good question. I think a couple of things to point out in terms of just third quarter. First, in the first and third quarter, we typically have higher preferred stock dividends by about $30 million. Second, we are running a little heavier on interest costs on debt just because of the $1 billion of debt we raised in July. I think third item is PE returns have been down the last couple of quarters. And then lastly, I ca”