“And so the way we would think about it when we look at our own forecasting is we would expect to see our market shares rise over a period of time, and quarter by quarter, know that it will be subject to volatility that exists.”

In context

“base is because obviously, as you -- as Charlie mentioned, you're underpenetrated across the board. So should we continue to see a moving up of this base despite the seasonality as we look forward? Charlie Scharf: Okay, there's a lot in there. Let me start, Mike, and then you chime in. So first of all, Mike, you can comment on like investment banking and trading. But again, we're -- I mean, we're not going to answer the question on how you should think about what investment banking and trading will be in the future. What we're focused on are, are we building businesses? Are we taking share in a way which is profitable? And that's exactly what we're starting to do. And there is volatility of the business, but we're focused on building it over a period of time and that's what we're seeing. And so the way we would think about it when we look at our own forecasting is we would expect to see our market shares rise over a period of time, and quarter by quarter, know that it will be subject to volatility that exists. Mike Santomassimo: And when you think about the first quarter in particular, there's always going to be seasonality on the trading side. That happens pretty much every year. So you can't just take that as a run rate. And on the investment banking side, you've certainly seen some very high issuance volumes on the investment-grade debt side. So that's likely maybe pulling some issuance forward later in the year but we'll see. And then some of the M&A revenue that's embedded in there can be somewhat episodic and volatile, just given the timing of deals and closings and stuff. And so you do have to look at those two lines over a longer period of time. Charlie Scharf: And then on your question on expenses, again, it is -- we were in the exact same place that we've been, which is we're not thin”